Curse

Cmdr Sub Zero · Mar 20, 2008, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

unfortunately, the turret rangers were the meta game. if you admit that the problem was the meta game, then you also simultaneously admit that there was something wrong with turret rangers. by nerfing the turret rangers, we fix the meta game.

problem solved.

Its not that its the concept of nerfing new builds that come around so the meta game never changes. Nerfing skills that affect both pvp and pve just so the meta game doesn't change is just bad policy.

Shuuda · Mar 20, 2008, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmdr Sub Zero

Its not that its the concept of nerfing new builds that come around so the meta game never changes. Nerfing skills that affect both pvp and pve just so the meta game doesn't change is just bad policy.

It's better than buffing all the skills into overpoweredness, face facts, nerfs are needed, otherwise the game would suck and get boring fast.

Terraban · Mar 20, 2008, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

It's better than buffing all the skills into overpoweredness, face facts, nerfs are needed, otherwise the game would suck and get boring fast.

If all skills were overpowered the game would be balanced :P

Cmdr Sub Zero · Mar 20, 2008, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

It's better than buffing all the skills into overpoweredness, face facts, nerfs are needed, otherwise the game would suck and get boring fast.

Some nerfs are needed yes for horribly over powered situations. But the constant Powering down of skills just to balance the game is only going to lead to overall weak skills in the end.

Arkantos · Mar 20, 2008, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

If all skills were overpowered the game would be balanced :P

Actually, it would be far from balanced.

Savio · Mar 20, 2008, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmdr Sub Zero

Some nerfs are needed yes for horribly over powered situations. But the constant Powering down of skills just to balance the game is only going to lead to overall weak skills in the end.

Hey guess what? They buff skills too. But the anti-nerf crowd's too busy nitpicking every single nerf to care.

Wild Karrde · Mar 20, 2008, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Did you perhaps miss the part where rangers were doing more DPS than a warrior from range? Can you see how that *might* be imbalanced?

cough cough paragons cough

whats this whining about a profession doing more damage than a warrior at range??? wait whats that I hear??? omfg spears!!!!! look out they are coming run away wait running wont help cause its ranged, too bad its not axes or swords, kiting>>>melee weapons.

Imbagons still survive and anet destroys a build in witch a ranger can actually do damage that is threatening. granted it was way overpowered but did they need to totally kill the skills. Wait yeah they did cause anet has two buttons when it comes to nerffing "do nothing" and "annihilate"

1 up and 2 down · Mar 20, 2008, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmdr Sub Zero

Well this skill update update just took it too far for me with nerfing ranger skills.
After this skill update one question that comes to mind is Why do we need rangers anymore if their Bloody skills are doing to get powered down or changed.
I mean the ranger is known for its bow damage, few interrupts, and armor penetration. Yet now bow attack skills are being so powered down that they aren't worth using. Rangers aren't used for their interrupts due to Mesmer domination in that category. The only two builds that are really even make it worth having a ranger is touch ranger (which everyone is amazed hasn't been nerfed) and Burning arrow spammer.
So why do we even have rangers?!?! I feel like deleting my ranger which is my oldest character just so I can create a class that doesn't get so horribly under powered. I mean if you look at the history of skill updates the rangers overall power has decreased so now it is a pitful class to even use. I love anet to death but seriously them constantly boosting other classes skill while decreasing rangers overall damage is just a hypocrisy. This is one ranger who is sick of being nerfed.

Sincerely,
Itzl the Ranger

Oh give me a break. They nerfed 3 skills(the fourth one was a clone)! Anet never decreased "rangers overall power". Maybe awhile ago but not recently.

Want some examples of the numerous buffs that rangers have gotten?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_...0080117#Ranger - One nerf, but multiple buffs

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_...0071113#Ranger - Pet nerf(doesn't affect rangers) and multiple buffs

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_...0070809#Ranger - All buffs

Those were just a few, but Anet has never nerfed the ranger so much that it has become useless or pitiful.

You really need to stop the drama, it was just 3 skills that were nerfed; and they weren't even nerfed that much.

Nevin · Mar 20, 2008, 11:16 PM // 23:16

OMG! Power shot got a nerf!? The poor rangers in pre-sear!

TheGuildWarsPenguin · Mar 20, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

OMG! Power shot got a nerf!? The poor rangers in pre-sear!

I snickered. THINK OF THE PRE-SEAR PLAYERS.

ZenRgy · Mar 20, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamsterstyle GYM

I would jump on the bandwagon of tears for rangers but I cried hard enough when Crippling Shot's recharge increased from 1 to 2 a few weeks ago.

Come up with something new is the only solution...that, or rage quit because you don't have every skill in the game =/

But cripshot is still amazing...

Why are people all "emffff rangers r dmg class! now they no do big damage!"

Glad Ango's got nerfed, though.

HawkofStorms · Mar 20, 2008, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Foex's Promise and Guilding Hands nerf seems to be a inadvertant "buff" to Avatar of Grenth (by relativism)

YEAH! Enchanter's was reverted and is now useable again.
Hex Breaker I guess is an attack on the old HB meta? Good to me.

W00t they listened to our Sardelaic thread about updating Magehunter (since it now applies KD, it is no longer a sideways swing).

Angro's was always overpowered. So good.

Removed exploitation in the AT (get all your friends to register and forfeit for you).

All fairly good. Anybody complaining about the ranger nerfs clearly don't play ranger that much (those skills were hardly staples).

Arkantos · Mar 20, 2008, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

All fairly good. Anybody complaining about the ranger nerfs clearly don't play ranger that much (those skills were hardly staples).

Yeah, I don't understand why people are complaining about the 3 nerfs. They were crap skills before they were buffed, they're crap skills now.

Solas · Mar 20, 2008, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

OMG! Power shot got a nerf!? The poor rangers in pre-sear!

that brough a smile

*lemming* · Mar 20, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Stop taking skill updates personally. Anet's not out to nerf whatever pet build you're running.

Crom The Pale · Mar 20, 2008, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Those skills fit into a very nice build my Ranger and all of my Ranger Heros ran!

It was a very nasty nerf since they used ALL of those skills.

For those that don't understand, after the last buff to those skills they could be chained together in a rapid fire attack that dealt 200+ dmg in under 2 seconds. With the correct preperation and elite skill + high expertise you could spam those attacks constantly.

This nerf cut the damage of that bar so much that now an elemental with only Obsidian Flame on his bar can out dmg my ranger... ;( death of yet another hero build.

Shyft the Pyro · Mar 20, 2008, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

Stop taking skill updates personally. Anet's not out to nerf whatever pet build you're running.

Of course not. They already nerfed the pet build I was running when my pet, a living creature, stopped leaving a corpse. Now, they just nerf whatever build I'm running, since I don't have a "pet" any more

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

unfortunately, the turret rangers were the meta game. if you admit that the problem was the meta game, then you also simultaneously admit that there was something wrong with turret rangers. by nerfing the turret rangers, we fix the meta game.

problem solved.

All right, I'll bite. Let us examine this step-by-step:

Q. Why are turret rangers the meta?
A. Because they work so well.

Q. Why do turret rangers work so well?
A. Because people aren't ready for the damage spike.

Q. Why aren't people ready for the damage spike?
A1. They don't know what the build does (wait, can't be that, the build's been around...)
A2. They don't have defense (wait, can't be that, everyone brings defense...)
A3. They don't bring the right counters.

In the game of rock-paper-scissors, rock remains the meta only so long as no one starts bringing paper. If paper shows up in games consistently enough, rock stops being the meta, because bringing rock is like asking for a loss. That's when paper becomes the new meta, and people start bringing scissors to counter it. Before long, scissors is the new meta, and people dust off their rocks and go out smashing things

In a healthy gaming environment, that is how the meta evolves. It does not matter how "overpowered" the build is, unless A) it is an "auto-win" or B) there are no counters. There are a few "auto-win" things in Guild Wars, like the Necromancer blood-stealing skills that go through everything (which is partly why so many people hate touch rangers), but with a pool of skills as huge as we have there should be no shortage of counters. Skills should be nerfed only if the build's counters are so few and far between that everyone starts playing the build in the hope of out-spiking the enemy first. Instead of being "the meta," the build becomes "the field." Turret rangers were nowhere near that by definition - there are too many counters for them.

And while we're on the topic of nerfs, why do they have to be made at all? There have been countless complaints about skills that never see any use. As Wail of Doom recently illustrated, ANet is not above changing skill functionality completely. If some new, "overpowered" build rears its ugly head, why not "buff" a few unused skills - by increasing their power, reworking their functionality, or eliminating anomalies - to counter the build? Instead of having "nerfs" demolish the established meta, such "buffs" would put more tools in the "rock-paper-scissors" pool, allowing the meta to balance itself.

xDusT II · Mar 20, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmdr Sub Zero

Well this skill update update just took it too far for me with nerfing ranger skills.
After this skill update one question that comes to mind is Why do we need rangers anymore if their Bloody skills are doing to get powered down or changed.
I mean the ranger is known for its bow damage, few interrupts, and armor penetration. Yet now bow attack skills are being so powered down that they aren't worth using. Rangers aren't used for their interrupts due to Mesmer domination in that category. The only two builds that are really even make it worth having a ranger is touch ranger (which everyone is amazed hasn't been nerfed) and Burning arrow spammer.
So why do we even have rangers?!?! I feel like deleting my ranger which is my oldest character just so I can create a class that doesn't get so horribly under powered. I mean if you look at the history of skill updates the rangers overall power has decreased so now it is a pitful class to even use. I love anet to death but seriously them constantly boosting other classes skill while decreasing rangers overall damage is just a hypocrisy. This is one ranger who is sick of being nerfed.

Sincerely,
Itzl the Ranger

I think you win the award for the most incorrect statements made in a single post.

1 up and 2 down · Mar 20, 2008, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Those skills fit into a very nice build my Ranger and all of my Ranger Heros ran!

It was a very nasty nerf since they used ALL of those skills.

For those that don't understand, after the last buff to those skills they could be chained together in a rapid fire attack that dealt 200+ dmg in under 2 seconds. With the correct preperation and elite skill + high expertise you could spam those attacks constantly.

This nerf cut the damage of that bar so much that now an elemental with only Obsidian Flame on his bar can out dmg my ranger... ;( death of yet another hero build.

I hope you weren't serious...

If you were, then why do you think they were nerfed?

Mr. Undisclosed · Mar 20, 2008, 11:51 PM // 23:51

I was starting to have fun with a pew pew ranger. Buring arrow and crip shot rangers get boring after a bit.

and lolwut? for the powershot nerf, like anyone uses it.